Having Perma-death as an option

Discussion in 'Polls' started by Jaskell, Jul 13, 2017.

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  1. Like many of you I have been waiting in anticipation for SoD2 and in my free time started playing the original again. Hours of fun passed until I lost someone to perma-death and I started remembering how not fun this aspect of the game is. I also recalled the complaints of my friends that purchased the game that seemed blind-sided by perma-death.
    I think the surprise stems from the story line and RPG elements of the original game. Players drawn to the story and RPG elements are turned off by perma-death and may not continue to play. These players interpret the hours spent increasing stats on a character as lost and non-recoverable regardless of the systems, design intent, etc. In essence, perma-death is rare in RPGs because it turns a good portion of the player base off.

    Solution: allow for the perma-death to be an option when starting a new game.
     
  2. Undead Nicole

    Undead Nicole Community Manager Staff Member

    Mornin :) I moved your thread to the Polls section where the choices will actually work. :)

    That aside, Perma-death is a primary feature of State of Decay and I'm not sure it would be quite the same game without it. :)
     
  3. Doomen Gloom

    Doomen Gloom Famous

    The beauty of State of Decay is that fear of loosing someone forever. In my opinion so much would be lost if you did not have permadeath.
     
  4. Spelunky

    Spelunky Here To Help

    Of course it would open the game to more players. That is obvious. Not even a question. But it would also alienate those who are in the fan-base right now.
     
  5. chikawowwow

    chikawowwow Here To Help

    I'm generally all for options or playing how you want but I don't think Undead Labs should add this as an option. The reasons being that :
    1) there is no risk vs reward without permadeath, there is no reason for me to avoid that hoard if the only penalty I have is being sent back to the base.
    2) like @Undead Nicole said it's a core part of the game.
    3) people would burn through the content of the game.
    4) people may miss entire scenarios that rely on a character dying.
    Taking the above points I can guarantee that negative reviews would be along the lines of boring, too short, they've made this sequel for 'casuals'.

    I think something that controversial is better to be done by modders than by the developers. Also I don't think having it as an option would improve sales because of the review issues above, it'd probably be worse.
    Just to reiterate that I don't disagree with your desire to have it as an option, I wouldn't play with it on but I don't begrudge people playing with it, just that it's too far from the core tenets of what SOD is to even be considered by the devs IMO.
     
  6. Goonie

    Goonie Here To Help

    I voted no. Personally, like others have said, I find perma-death to be a big source of the tension in these games. What would you suggest as an alternative punishment for dying?
     
  7. DJB204

    DJB204 Famous

    I love permadeath as much as I hate it, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

    Are you suggesting respawn instead of permadeath? If it was an option then the in-game choices wouldn't mean anything. Example: if a mission doesn't go our way and we lose somebody, then we would just respawn and try again with a different choice. The tough choices that Jeff has been talking about would become non existent. Permadeath is a must.
     
  8. Felio

    Felio Here To Help

    It just needs to be communicated to the player. In SOD1 the first and only indication that the game has permadeath comes when you die.
     
  9. Shadowreflexion

    Shadowreflexion Got Your Back

    Will I live today? Will I be killed due to my own reckless behavior or assisting someone else? That's one of many reasons UL deserved my money twice. Even though it's a game, I finally felt true placement into a genre I grew up on.

    Death happens. We can prolong it a bit but one playthrough can make you stand up, walk outside and reflect on if your choice could have been different?

    In a game that built so much around the idea of "what if?", it wouldn't be indistinguishable from other games. That in itself created what could be said with one word..."unique".

    So I vote no.
     
  10. chikawowwow

    chikawowwow Here To Help

    This seriously made me think about what impact games have while you're growing up and thus what kids who grew up playing Dark Souls are going to be like.
    Will I be driving around seeing loads of early 20s banging their heads against a wall?
     
  11. Shadowreflexion

    Shadowreflexion Got Your Back

    That made me laugh!!!
    Once at myself for being this old and still finding comfort in games I consider special.

    The second was a disheartening laugh at what I consider the eye candy and new loud noises generation who aren't interested in hearing game dialogue or noticing little references to the bygone days of good books and movies.

    Sadly, with the advent of how many PvP games that only offer colorful settings, a plasma rifle replacing an AK47 with the same run and gun, rinse and repeat. There absolutely WILL be 20 somethings that reminisce about how lucky they were running in a door with a grenade facing 3 other players. But not too many will be able to say, damn, I lost my car, had a crowbar, 1 clip and still managed to make it back home on half stamina.

    In my late 20's, my friends and I had LAN parties after which we would discuss the marketing of games (garbage money grabs) with the release of summer movies as well as the dumbing down of games to capture a wider audience. Very few games being developed choose to buck that trend. Some however choose to have faith that some out there will support and purchase their product based on word of mouth not shallow reviews.

    No matter how many different coats of paint you apply to a room, it's still the same room.

    I miss the "How the hell am I going to make it through this?, vibe."

    Fortunately, there are still developers that grew up on the notion that different can be better.

    People have to love something when they choose to create something. Whether it's a spouse getting ready to start a family or a person restoring a classic car, it's the same concept. So when certain developers decide to create something different, it's born out of love for the genre they're choosing as the groundwork.

    So to you I say smile when those 20 somethings are banging their heads and remember that you gave something different a chance and found enjoyment.

    That memory will be yours.
     
  12. chikawowwow

    chikawowwow Here To Help

    Agreed!
    I've got a lot of memorable experiences from FPSs like Swat 3 & 4, the original Rainbow 6's & Ghost Recons but today's 10-18 yr olds don't have any recent offerings that are more tactics than spolsions.
    It's probably unfathomable to them that in Swat 3 there was an entire level with just one enemy, that'd probably take multiple attempts to do perfectly. I don't dislike them playing the new FPSs I just mourn the loss of experiences they'll never get to have.
    Having been shot in the leg and having to limp the whole way to the extraction point is a humbling experience I think, no second chances: you either live with the mistake or restart.
     
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  13. Undead Nicole

    Undead Nicole Community Manager Staff Member

    Gentlemen, please keep in mind that we have plenty 20 year old's in this community that love the game, love the Perma Death et al. IE. (while I'm using acronyms) Don't generalize. :)
     
  14. TheFrightfulHog

    TheFrightfulHog Got Your Back

    Alternative/Better Solution: Those players need to just play a nice 2D scroller or something. Artists should never compromise the integrity of their art because some people don't get it.
     
  15. chikawowwow

    chikawowwow Here To Help

    Flappy Bird is probably less forgiving than SOD is?
    It'd probably be better to play a nice relaxing game of XCOM...
     
    Bob Crees and Doomen Gloom like this.
  16. "Those players" will find something else to play.

    The underlying tone of the original question was asking for the option of Perma-death in exchange for making the game more inclusive to different players. Nothing in the original post suggested Perma-death should be removed.

    Lastly, game development is very much about compromise. Quite often the compromise is done in the spirit of making the game accessible to the largest player base to increase the product revenue.

    Good day to you.
     
  17. TheFrightfulHog

    TheFrightfulHog Got Your Back

    So should they make chess be more like checkers since more people play checkers?
     
    Bob Crees and chikawowwow like this.
  18. Let me break it down to you in a picture.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  19. Shadowreflexion

    Shadowreflexion Got Your Back

    Not trying to take it too far so excuse me if this bothers some.

    I remember a game named Contra. A simple side scrolling co-op quarter eater that was highly addictive. 3 lives and you either solo or with a friend fought against an alien aggressor.

    When released on home consoles, people were amazed at the infamous Konami code that sadly, decades later I still know...
    "Shadowreflexion" hangs his head in shame, daughter wipes the single tear from his cheek...

    Now it came to a point about skill. Who could last the longest with 3 lives only? Countless play throughs, patterns learned, success, game beaten.

    Never intended to disrespect anyone's opinion because of age. If it appeared in that context, apologies are due and I am sorry.

    My point being, should it be made easier and changed for more appeal? My argument is a very strong one due to the vision on the part of the creators of the game.

    When I was first thrust into the action at the campsite, I was in a state of shock. It grabbed me and didn't let go.

    When I was cruising around town and Ed died because of neglect, I powered the XBOX down restarted hoping it would bring him back but it was futule.
    Upset, I took Marcus on a one man (on foot, locked and loaded) to exact some unknown revenge against an enemy that was in reality myself.

    Blunt weapon wore down and broke, ran out of ammo, no stamina, no food, just glowing eyes closing in. I was torn apart. From that moment, I learned something. Be more aware and play within the constraints of the game.

    Dying for me became part of the world I was in. Though I restarted later after I had gotten better, I finally understood what survival was about in this game and that there was no going back only further.

    It's one thing to ask for let's say a lifeline when in trouble and quite another to ask for changes to a construct that was brainstormed and made into the foundation.

    I wouldn't ask for a great white to change its baser instincts when hunting for food or force my opinion on others when we are all individuals so I truly can't foresee what would be gained if this game gave the player infinite 1 ups just so they can covet a character that they like.

    There were so many different taunts and cheers I never would have heard had I had an immortal character. Sue Rose Uh...Ahh...Ahhhhhhh! Priceless. Better than biscuits on a Sunday morning. Today's a good day to kill Zeds!

    So again, apologies if I offended. But I have to kindly disagree with the immortal character option.
     
  20. chikawowwow

    chikawowwow Here To Help

    It could be the way I'm reading some of these posts but I think there is the impression that the OP was wanting permadeath removed - which isn't the case.
     
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