Patrick Poll #2: Should Cars Require Fuel?

Discussion in 'Polls' started by Patrick, Aug 13, 2013.

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  1. DJB204

    DJB204 Famous

    Fuel needs more purpose in the game.
    Bob Crees and Cejao like this.
  2. Cejao

    Cejao Famous

    Can we have NoS for Turbo while were at it?
    Bob Crees and XzerothreeX like this.
  3. M >>>

    M >>> Got Your Back

    Hello Patrick !

    A difficult question you're posing there and one I'm sure our dear developers talked long hours about.
    The current advantages of the unlimited fuel cars is offset by the limited lifetime each car has.
    I mean that it can be challenging to keep any one vehicle from getting beat up and eventually destroyed.
    So vehicles have a kind of "accelerated aging" affect due to the fact that we're running zombies over every chance we get.

    Requiring fuel would mean that we'd eventually need a REFINERY !
    This to process new fuels, as stored fuels eventually decompose and lose their potency over time and can severely damage engines if the car just sits there.

    Taking the more realistic approach is problematic due to the immense fuel transport system that have since broken down with the COLLAPSE of civilization.
    No one has time to drill for oil. The oil in supertankers or storage tanks just sit there. Petroleum Engineers are not making sure oil pipelines are flowing to refineries.
    Refineries are shut down and inoperative - so no new gasoline or diesel. No trucker wants to do a "Mad Max / RoadWarrior" run to deliver fuel to some town in the sticks.
    ( How much would YOU charge for such a delivery ? You're only risking your life ! )
    No gasoline or diesel hauler is going to make a delivery while fending off the undead revenants clawing at his face !

  4. DJB204

    DJB204 Famous

    The State Of Decay world is about depleting resources. So when fuel runs out, so should our reliance on vehicles. This game is about managing our resources, and vehicles properly, and if we over use them, we pay the price. Fuel should be no different. Limited fuel adds another element to the survival aspect. We shouldn't be garanteed survival, we should be tested for survival. This is a survival game after all. Isn't it?
  5. Cejao

    Cejao Famous

    H1Z1 does a better job at the "survival" aspect... without having to throw dinosaurs into the mix, like a certain game I wont mention.
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  6. DJB204

    DJB204 Famous

    Another good one is The Long Dark. It's a true survival sim, but instead of zombies it's Mother Nature. You'll still get eaten alive though. Wolves.
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  7. Fabian907

    Fabian907 Famous

    ARK: Survival Evolved
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  8. Cejao

    Cejao Famous

    there are wolves and bears in H1Z1:JS, you can die from a single hit from a bear, and it only takes like 4-5 wolf bites to kill you.

    and there is fuel crafting in H1Z1:JS. you have to collect animal fat from the animals, the wolves, bears, deer, and rabbits and use it to make biofuel.
    or grow wheat and corn and use the wheat to make yeast and mix the yeast with the corn and some water to make ethanol fuel.
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2016
  9. M >>>

    M >>> Got Your Back

    DJB204, I don't see that survival is at all guaranteed.
    Players and Survivors can make critical mistakes at ANY point in the game.

    If the game becomes too realistic it could become too much like real life with tedious moments included.
    Seems to me that our dear developers sought to leave room for fun and cut down on the chores somewhat.
    ( Fuel gathering being one of those chores.)

    It's interesting that someone wants that chore - perhaps in a quest for "more realism".
    Should we then ask how realistic is the game scenario in the first place ?
    I consider this a dystopian science fiction or fantasy game with survival aspects and community emphasized.

    If realism is what someone wants - how far down that road do they want to go ?
    Where would the new fuel be from ? Did someone build a still ? Is it made from corn based Ethanol ?
    Do you want to spend months and months planting corn, growing corn, fertilizing corn, harvesting corn, and then feeding corn into an Ethanol plant for fuel ?

    Will the game still be fun when there are no more working vehicles, there's no fuel, no ammunition, and no replacement weapons ?

    Then there's the BIG Question. What's realistic about zombies in the first place ?

    There is also the question of balance. Our foes - the undead - re-spawn endlessly. Why should they be exempt from the law of depleting resources ?
    Why don't THEIR numbers dwindle ? Why don't THEY become exhausted ? WHY do THEY get to spawn endlessly without explanation or justification ?

    Seems to me that there is still plenty of survival challenge.


    * Maybe folks would like to have certain selectable OPTIONS for additional challenges !
    That is a request we have seen from several quarters and I agree that having additional options and or modes could keep players interest going.

    Righteous Ham, MatchesMalone, nomotog, StupidZombie, yourself, and ThunderIce have all made requests for having the Options to adjust difficulty settings and /or challenge modes.

    * Undead Lab Developers feel free to comment anytime on these and related questions !
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2016
  10. DJB204

    DJB204 Famous

    Will the game still be fun when there are no more working vehicles?

    HELL YEAH, that's how I play all the time now, because the game is too easy with cars. If they added fuel, I would use them, but right now they are too over powered.

    The question of balance for depleting resources?

    Balanceing the gameplay so the AI has a fair experience is absurd. You can't use that example to prove a point lol. It makes zero sense.

    Months and months planting corn?

    SoD1 allows for the construction and distribution of food resources from a full fledged greenhouse in less then an hour. Why would anyone want to change that?

    I think your missing the purpose of the fuel in vehicles request. Fuel in SoD1 has little use. Fuelling cars could be added to give more purpose to fuel. Also, running out of gas in the middle of nowhere or in the middle of a horde could add for some really intense gameplay. That could be really fun experience.
    Cejao and Bob Crees like this.
  11. Bob Crees

    Bob Crees Banned

    Another use of Fuel and linked to vehicles, would be using it in a generator. You cannot run your Machine Shop without power or indeed your Ammo Shop. A generator would allow you to use these facilities, but the noise could bring the risk of more Hordes:)
    Backpacker Lee and Cejao like this.
  12. M >>>

    M >>> Got Your Back

    Hello DJB204 !

    As I think about the option you're hoping for, I can easily imagine how game play would change in dramatic ways.

    Scenario: Gun Run to Outpost

    D.G. : "Okay we've looted the guns from the gun store - let's get outta here !"

    ( D.G. and M >>> run out the back to the truck. D.G. is driving. )

    M >>>: "Where we headed ?"

    D.G. : "I think we'd better check on the new outpost by that rival faction. There was a distress call earlier.
    - Oh crap ! We've only got a quarter tank of fuel left ! I think we can get there - but unless they have a fuel stockpile we're gonna be on foot after."

    M >>>: "I think we might be on foot sooner - looks like the outpost is surrounded by a horde - and I'm outta grenades."

    D.G.: "If we stop right here, we could use the rest of the gas to make molotovs and then wipe out that infestation !

    M >>>: "Let's Make it happen !"

    ( After the fight. )

    D.G.: "Well it looks like we stay here tonight - unless you wanna hoof it back in the Dark !

    M >>>: "I'll pass. Tell you what - these guys don't have any fuel for incendiaries. If we hit the fuel depot tomorrow morning we can fuel the truck and bring another can for the outpost for use in molotovs.

    D.G.: "Sounds like a plan !"
    Backpacker Lee, Cejao and XzerothreeX like this.
  13. 23-down

    23-down Got Your Back

    I voted for no. Simply because this would mean that this would be goods that had to respawn and I do hope SOD2 wont repeat the same mistake SOD1 did by respawning everything every few minutes that was kinda disappointing. Once something is looted once something is smashed it should remain that way.

    Now if they would invent a factory for manufacturing own fuel I'd be more inclined but all that at the same time would go closer to becoming one of these tiresome crafting games. You know these in which you hack 10 minutes virtual wood, 40 minutes virtual rocks etc.. I loved SOD because it wasn't like that and due to the fact of permanent death. I'm sure most of you as well. Creating fuel would require many chemicals and oil etc. Doubtful that scattered survivors could manufacture something like that even if there was a surviving chemistry technician among the survivors.
    Cejao likes this.
  14. CaptainAssassin

    CaptainAssassin Here To Help

    What? Which SoD were you playing where loot respawned every few minutes?
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  15. 23-down

    23-down Got Your Back

    I referred to the street signs and stuff... You know that.. I just made sure to imply that I wouldn't wanna see items re-spawning as well in regards of the fuel idea people wish for.
    Cejao likes this.
  16. CaptainAssassin

    CaptainAssassin Here To Help

    But, why would fuel need to respawn? The current game already has the necessary functions for fuel usage— scavenging, fuel outposts, and you can also create fuel with an upgraded storage facility. The next game should be able to manage fuel in vehicles without the arcade limitations of the original, and without respawning.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2016
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  17. Greyhound501

    Greyhound501 Here To Help

    You can actually run vehicles off wood if you have a certain system set up but they can only go 30-40mph
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  18. osamaclees

    osamaclees Here To Help

    voted no purely because i dont believe its needed nor do i want the hassle of fueling up
    theres plenty of fuel resource on map (as well as there should be!) and a tank of gas will allow a car to travel one hell of a long way, having to fuel up the car is just an extra unneeded micromanagement.

    just a little real world comparison, not long ago i did a job photographing a western riding show at rabbit island outside of nelson, it was a 2 day event and I drove there and back each day.
    its 139.6km from blenheim to there
    4x so thats 558.4km traveled
    Also spent alot of time driving around nelson and richmond each day shopping with the gf, and the car was massively overloaded with gear (and shopping!)
    I wouldnt know the km value of that but just the blenheim to rabbit island and back totals 558.4km
    this was all done on one tank of gas (and still had gas!)
    volvo s60 so wasnt some huge yank tank sure but it aint no small engine light weight runs on an oily rag car, v5 2.4l and has an empty curb weight of 3146lbs
    yep most was open road but there was a hell of a lot of town driving going on too, and trumball valley is mostly open road and ofcourse the town streets are pretty deserted nor does a speeding ticket mean anything in a ZA heh.
    I also know i can get from blenheim to christchurch on half a tank and thats 308.9km

    mine has an 70l gas tank which is 18.49gallons the mpg figures online is 21mpg town 28mpg open road
    thats 517.72 (833.19kms!!) it can travel open road not including reserve
    or 388.29 miles (624.89kms!) dogging it around town not including reserve

    there are no traffic lights, other vehicles being driven on road nor any worry about road rules and speed limits in trumball valley during the ZA

    not sure why anyone thinks we need to be constantly refueling our cars in game all the time? they can travel one hell of a long way on a single tank, yeah the one you just jumped in the owner may have been on their way to get gas and shes low but just RP that you stopped at one of the many gas stations around (which quite possibly could be an outpost!) or just RP the car you just jacked had a full tank of gas

    in story mode, the entire game one tank of gas would have lasted the entire story so i really wouldnt of needed to refuel
    also i usually base myself at snyders, theres a gas station right next door lol (which is outposted too)

    understand the wanting to make it real and giving fuel more to do, but i think fuel does have enough in the manufacturing of weapons and outpost mines. Also bare in mind the fuel bug in BD where you do not want to have a large stockpile.
    realism does not always good game make, in FPS games we should die as soon as shot if it was real or atleast if not a fatal wound would make you extremely combat ineffective and a sitting duck for the enemy.
    in SOD then we shouldnt have HP as theres no such thing, a twinkie wouldnt be able to instantly restore our stamina etc
    shouldnt we actually stop and eat? take time to cook meals? go to the toilet?
    etc etc etc etc etc etc etc (you guys know what i mean) etc etc etc

    and then on the flip side well then cars shouldnt get destroyed by running down zeds, all the "tough" cars (pickups, suv, military suv, land battleship station wagon etc) could do this all day every day
    even the fragile performance cars could aswell just that they would take quite a lot of superficial damage like losing panels, massive dents etc and wouldnt be hitting their top speeds or acceleration figures anymore sure but chasis and engine wise theyd still be rocking. getting you from a to b and running down zeds along the way.
    Cejao likes this.
  19. Tsewe

    Tsewe Here To Help

    I would say yes, also for a compromise like the one suggested by Red Eye.

    Fuel should be more useful, but not a pain, as Osamaclees stated. So using 1 fuel for 1 vehicule per ingame day or something like that would be reasonable.
    I really think Fuel should be a kind of luxury resource, that you want to manage wisely, which would add to realism and prevent "car abuses".
  20. CaptainAssassin

    CaptainAssassin Here To Help

    Yes, make it draw from resources automatically, instead of fuel gauges in the cars— similar to outpost maintenance. Because we all know what refueling a car under pressure would quickly turn into:

    Cejao, Bob Crees and Tsewe like this.
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