The Blades

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Akinaba, Sep 30, 2016.

  1. Akinaba

    Akinaba Got Your Back

    Suddnely, unrelated as usual I had a thought that a nice vintage two-handed sword could nicely fit the heavy weapon animation exept maybe the running thing. And pointing out to self the fact that an edges of such swords were not shrped not to speak about some collectional or fan-made piece of meal I suddenly started heavily want it in the game (YOSE).

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    Culd we have it as some kind of Christmas gift or for an acheevement, pretty pweease?!
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2016
  2. osamaclees

    osamaclees Here To Help

    only the cermonial great swords were not sharpened, others most definitely were! like the german zweihander or french flamberge although they generally had an unsharpened area just below the crosspiece (forte) which allowed the weapon to be gripped from both the hilt and forte for extra thrusting power.

    i cant quite pic the heavy weapon running animation but could work gripping the hilt and forte?

    would love a greatsword too! maybe something similar to the witch king sword from LOTR? i have one and although no where near forged properly its incredibly well made and strong for a replica movie prop and holds an edge well too
     
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  3. Bob Crees

    Bob Crees Famous

    Would it be a 'Heavy' weapon or a 'Super Edged' weapon?

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  4. osamaclees

    osamaclees Here To Help

    id vote super edged myself

    in MERP an rpg based around tolkiens works the greatswords did slashing crits with a secondary crushing crit, which is what they would do in real life.
    if you get hit with one your going to take some serious slashing damage but also massive impact from the hit
     
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  5. Akinaba

    Akinaba Got Your Back

    Heavy. The thing is that we have all the animation needed for the heavy weapon (as I said it fits perfectly, exept the running thing when a player model grabs the center of the weapon's model) so here we will just need a new model (not even a complex one), which will have a non-sharpen partocular inrelative center or will be state as non-sharpened by description, while there is simply no such thing as "Super Edged" weapon in the game at all.

    The only thing we maybe need to change to feel it really is adding the sounds of "slash" to this particular weapon instead the usual smashing sounds of heavy. But if it will be stated as non-sharpened thing even this may be left as is.

    @osamaclees
    Was it possible to grab the blade of such sword even if it was sharpened. I mean they regulary arent razor-sharp are they?

    P.S. GettinGetting-handed in an october Slasher Flick challange which grants sword weapon set would be utterly super-duper cool methinks, whattdaya think, guys?!
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2016
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  6. Brymstone

    Brymstone Starting Off

    I think two-handed swords is getting a little beyond the realm of what would be available in areas like Trumbull County. I had a problem with the falchion and the broadsword too. I think SOD should reflect what's readily available in a typical American town. Yes, people have movie replica swords (which would break during the first encounter with the undead) and in some rare cases people have a collection of useful blades. I realize that kind of limits the edged weapons skill but realistically you would only have various types of machetes and hatchets to choose from if the SHTF tomorrow, unless of course you or your neighbor collects functional katana swords or is a collector of medieval blades, in which case there aren't going to be many to go around, making them a rarity.
     
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  7. Akinaba

    Akinaba Got Your Back

    Fun fact that we have a collection of almost all possible world firearms in Trumbull Valley and some blades and swords too. How's that realistic? ;)
     
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  8. Brymstone

    Brymstone Starting Off

    I think that is offset by the fact that you rarely find the military hardware in domestic residences but that it pops up at the military base of operations in the fairgrounds. the police station (very plausible) and in some of the gun stores. It's common lore that the military was disbursed throughout the area and set up a base of operations at the fairgrounds. Also, firearms are ALOT more prevalent in the U.S. than functional sword collections. People privately own FALs, SCARs, AK-47s, SKSs, AR-15s and various other paramilitary firearms, albeit they are semi-automatic but I honestly have never seen the need for full-auto firearms in SOD unless it was a light machinegun or military assault rifle that as I stated are usually found in military caches. I think UL did a great job in how they set up where firearms are usually found, however, I do feel there were way too many different firearms that crossed over each other and could have been a little more limited. I would like to see the option of being able to modify a smaller amount of weapons.
     
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  9. Akinaba

    Akinaba Got Your Back

    I do agree with your thoughts, but aside the firearms you can regulary find an actual sword, it's not as rare as one would expect in a random US little town.
     
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  10. Brymstone

    Brymstone Starting Off

    A replica sword, maybe, but a functional one I would trust to defend my life? That's not going to be sitting around in your ordinary household, especially in a place like Trumbull County. Maybe a strip mall dojo or possibly a gun shop. I understand they had to put them in otherwise edged weapon types wouldn't have anything close to the blunt weapon characters. That's where I think the machine shop could come in handy for manufacturing certain types of edged weapons. The cutting machine blade is a great example of what could be possible with a weapon production option for machine shops. Homemade forged weapons like crude chopping blades or re-purposed lawnmower blades that could be fashioned into crude swords with a little forging and tempering would be awesome to see in-game.
     
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  11. Bob Crees

    Bob Crees Famous

    [​IMG]
     
  12. osamaclees

    osamaclees Here To Help

    well the forte yes as that was left unsharp for that exact purpose, the blade no
    during the time period they were actually used plate armour was pretty serious, they had to be razor honed to be effective (why mostly used against plate be gripping the hilt and forte for thrusting with as much power as you could)
    during these times pikemen/halberdiers etc were the norm so one big use was to send the zweihunders in to actually attack the pikes and halberds rather than the troops, basically cut the heads off so then you send your pikemen/halbardiers in (with the zweihunders) after "hopefully" most of the enemy is disarmed.

    disagree, there are many many movie replica swords out there that are 2 handed, biggest ownership of movie replicas/props is in the USA
    rather large amount of "blacksmiths" there too were they make you anything you want (there was some show which followed a couple of good ol boy blacksmiths who basically only made giant swords)
    yes there is far faaaaaaaaaaaaar more single handed blades out there but i think you would be rather surprised
    still many falchions in movies and every single sword and sorcery style movie has been full of broadswords as "broadsword" can be termed on a huge array of swords.
    military swords are replica'd like crazy and theres many armoury's out there who pride themselves on forging proper working blades, many of these companies make the movie props too

    hell anytime you see any of the "pawn shop shows" or anything like the storage shows or whatever were they go to an shop to get things appraised have you not seen the huge amount of swords these shops have?

    I live in New Zealand, we dont have the age nor the population to have anything like what the states has but theres still a hell of alot of swords here, a hell of alot!
    I used to actually turn swords, id by up old rusted damaged blades, aslong as they were proper blades that can be restored, restore them then flip for profit

    hell of alot of replicas are fully functional
    yeah theres some shockers out there which are nothing more than for display both movie and just cheap decorative katanas, but theres vast amount out there that are actually just as good if not better than the actual war swords of old and not quite as good but an absolute huuuuuuuuge amount of blades that can slice and dice through unarmoured opponents all day every day

    remember replica just means its a copy, it doesnt have to mean a shit non usable copy if i go out and hand forge a 1000 fold steel blade the best in which the world has ever seen its still going to be a replica.

    I own many swords, some are replicas as in copies of movie swords some are copies of military swords
    I also have some that an old chinese friend of mine forged for me, these are modern made swords based around traditional blades with his own twist on.
    I also have one genuine american civil war saber

    the movie swords and military sword copies i own are deadly, the "shittest" one i have is the witch king sword from LOTR (which is a great sword) its made of stainless steel rather than proper sword steel, but that thing is solid, i would not want to go into battle against knights in armour with it but it would go all day against modern humans or zombies.

    one of the replica military blades i have is a CS armoury general joe shelby blade, this thing is a "replica" but it is a fully functional exact specification cavalry saber. This "replica" is both in better condition and considerably stronger than the real saber i have

    My hand forged Mao Dao is traditionally made and will cleave through whatever you want it too
    this thing is as real as has ever been yet still is technically a replica
    theres a pic on here page 302 (dont know how to link to a post) of my mao daos and one of my daos, you can easily get an idea just from that shitty pic that those are both fully functional blades that can zombie slay all day indefinitely, yet they are replicas

    all replica blades I own (which is all but one) are fully functional, all have full tangs, all can both be sharpened and all can maintain those edges
    i would trust every single one with my life

    even the witch king sword which is really for display can maintain an edge and would happily slice through zeds all day and that is by far the worst blade i own (is cool though)
    the other LOTR replica swords due to not being greatswords (FYI all the others except sting and arwens blade can be classed as "broadswords" and i guarantee there is a shit tonne of andurils and glamderings (not to mention the others but definitely those two) in the states) are actually all perfectly usable, there are tonnes out there
     
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  13. Akinaba

    Akinaba Got Your Back

    @osamaclees
    By the way, could you please provide us a pic of propper/replica two-handed sword with a safe grip in the middle ?
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
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  14. QMJS

    QMJS Famous

    As far as replica weapons go, you can kill a zombie with a stick, tree branch, or broom handle... anything as strong or stronger can be useful, and things shaped like weapons are designed to be more dangerous than general objects. Even if it is not as strong as a 'real' weapon, it's going to be strong enough. It just may not stand up to repeated use for very long.
     
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  15. osamaclees

    osamaclees Here To Help

    heres one with the traditional style grip on forte
    76331f453462efe28676038bf3f05e1f.png

    technically speaking though any replica you can because they simply do not come sharpened, you have to do that yourself or buy one from someone who already has
     
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  16. Erudain

    Erudain Here To Help


    I'll take an order of scythe please, do you do you serve it with a black hooded gown as a garnish?
     
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  17. osamaclees

    osamaclees Here To Help

    yep accepted that its all down to area

    theres a huge difference between "replicas" and "decorative" swords
    it can be what you dont see also, out of all the people in my town that i would truelly say i know or friends family etc i am the only one who has any proper swords but i also know of quite a few places here who have some fully functional blades, i just dont know them.
    bare in mind too some people have no idea what they have, during WW2 there was alot of "souvenirs" and "trophies" taken by americans, a tonne of it was swords. all blades that japanese NCO's and officers carried were fully functionable even if mass produced but some soldiers returned home with some ancient family blades that may well of been forged from any of the great smiths like masamune to kotetsu over the years, also after japans surrender the americans demanded the noble families hand over their sword collections, many did many did not. A famous and what is thought to be one of (if not THE) greatest blades ever forged the honjo masamune has been lost since the end of WW2, an american seargent received this blade from tokugawa iemasa and it has been lost ever since. In 2013 (i think) an ancient katana was found in the states and when bought to the kyoto museum for appraisal was found to be a masamune blade the shimazu Masamune, another legendary blade although not the honzo
    You will be absolutely amazed what sorts of ancient katana's are still thought to be in the states "somewhere" and even more incredible blades that arent as ancient or famous and arent looked for.
    no one is sure of the period of masamune but it is generally thought he made most of his blades during the late 13th century

    In fact one such family refused to as he didnt trust the americans but came to trust a friend of mines grand father who was a kiwi soldier stationed there as jtroop to help the rebuilding and instead organised him to take possession of the swords, armour, spears etc to hold in NZ. My friends grand father did that and had the full collection here in NZ for like 40 years or so. Unable to contact the family again he donated most of the collection back to japan
    sucks i didnt know him until after he'd donated back so i never got to see them, many discovery/history shows involving japanese national sword museums etc will credit him in credits

    There are some amazing katana blades full of history sitting in some americans closets or mantels. EDIT: meant to say here such as some dudes closet in trumbull valley :)

    the properly forged lord of the rings should set you back $600+ and alot more if from peter lyon armoury rather than crappy united cutlery, like alot of them there are different levels and most are made as decorative (theres even larp'ing versions)
    my witch king sword for example is not properly forged is from united cutlery and made of japanese 420J2 stainless steel not the best material in the world for sword smithing, although very hard and possesses good strength and impact resistance compared with 440 grade stainless which is high carbon steel stainless. that thing gets swung at all sorts of things including an old wood post that was an old school clothes line in my yard, and that post is made of aussie hardwood with no damage at all. i dont even have a single dent or notch on the edge
    the material wont hold a perfect edge its not designed for that but zeds dont wear platemail, it will slice through them with ease.

    also value doesnt mean proper blade either. I have 2x ninja to's, one of them is a proper blade designed specifically for functionability and is considerably deadly the other is a presentation piece it is made of silver plated blade but has scroll and design work up both blades and tsuba and an unbelievably beautiful hamon. I would probably bend the blade first hit.
    it is an incredibly beautiful sword and is worth a considerable amount waaaaaaaaay more than the "real" blade and is my most valuable piece including all the functionable blades and the genuine american civil war blade (has no pedigree), yet id break it if i ever tried to use it
    theres many cheap blades out there purely for "re-enactment" but properbattle style duelling that are incredibly cheap and basic but strong and durable i think these are referred to as "battle ready swords" they are fully functionable
    I remember in wellington a dude in the flat below me did this, he had a suit of chain, shield, helm, battle axe and sword. I remember him coming home from one of thess "re-enactments" with his shield cloven in half and his surcoat and chain ripped and his helm dented, insane
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
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  18. Brymstone

    Brymstone Starting Off

    Regardless of whether or not a decorative sword is good enough for zombie slaying, maybe the question should be whether or not we want to see SOD turned into Skyrim. Might as well add some wizard npc's and maybe an elven archer or two. I realize that's a bit over the top but if you start flooding the game with swords simply because you don't have anything else to put edged weapons on par with blunt weapons then I believe it's a cop out. Everything in the game works so well and can be readily justified within the zombie genre, except loading every one of my edged weapon specialists with a sword. I just think there are better options, but that's simply my opinion.
     
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  19. osamaclees

    osamaclees Here To Help

    not really as swords do exist, always did exsist, not only still exist but are still being made today
    wizards and elves are pure fantasy (unfortunately heh)
    making them flaming or vampiric or shoot fireballs etc yep that will turn it into skyrim type, but to say any game set in modern times and/or realistic cant have swords in it otherwise its "skyrim" is completely wrong
    such as fallout is now skyrim basically because FO4 has "magic" weapons in it now, the mere fact they have swords does not make it skyrim but the magic weapons do.

    they are not flooded in SOD they are quite rare, during story i found 2 only 1x pirate cutlass 1x broadsword
    during all my BD they (and the other raritys like the battleaxe and mace etc) they are by far the rarest melee weapon to find
    arming survivors with swords is realistic because they are absolutely around, and i could personally arm all my edged specialists myself and have swords left over.
    jow unrealistic would it be too say that theres even only 1x collector exists in all of trumbull county? just one collector would have more than enough to do so
    what about all the civil war and american revolution collectors? they would have military sabers
    or family heirlooms?
    what about a pawn shop or similar, should be a few there. many gunshops carry them too. theres also a dojo in SOD in fairfeild why not find there?

    see the thing is swords are weapons, that is their main exsistance. all other "tools" converted/used as weapons are simply not as good so why wouldnt one of your survivors who just looted this house/shop to find a sword use it? as such swords are weighted as weapons, try swinging a sledgehammer around in melee like you would in SOD
    and why wouldnt they be there then? wouldnt it be far more unrealistic to say theres no swords at all they dont exist

    yeah its all opinions, but there is no way whatsoever that in any situation be it a zombie apocalypse or just real life right now that you me or anybody cannot get their hands on a sword
    as of now for me i could easily arm all my survivors edged specialists or not and have a heap left over just with the blades i know do exist in my small new zealand town of less than 30000 population. and it wouldnt make it skyrim just because they had swords

    IMO they definitely belong in SOD because they are real they do exist and there are many many mnay many of them around, and i have never ever thought of any game as too skyrim-ey because it has swords in it
    they do not belong in a modern theatre of war but they sure as hell do belong and probably the best melee weapon you could ever have in a ZA!
     
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  20. QMJS

    QMJS Famous

    Also, just because you don't see them very often doesn't mean they are not around, although that also goes back to your point about the area you are in. In the region I live, swords are all over the place. This is the east coast. Not just replica swords, but actual swords.

    There are museums, ranging from small houses to major facilities, with weapons from all time periods, but particularly Revolutionary war and Civil war timeframes. Lots of older houses have a 'family' sword hanging up over the mantel or a doorway.
    In the same order, there are thousands of military reenactors who have functional swords, and most of the serious ones go to great lengths to have items as accurate and functional as possible.
    Both of these groups also have a number of musket type weapons, and there are still specific hunting seasons reserved for these types of guns, so finding one of those around wouldn't be unusual either.

    There are renaissance fairs here, theaters which do Greek and Shakespearean shows, the Shakespeare festival itself, entertainment parks and restaurants (like Medieval Times), all of which have some decorative weapons, and all of which also have stage combat weapons designed for full-contact durability. Many of these actors have their own personal weapons they prefer to use as well. The edges on these are not typically sharp, but they are strong steel and could hold an edge quite well once sharpened.

    There are nine types of swords currently approved for use by the active duty military, generally restricted to specific types of dress uniforms and ceremonial use (parade review, weddings, retirements, funerals, etc.) Certainly there are some of these tucked away nearby.

    We also have quite a few blacksmiths in the region, due to large numbers of racing, jumping, and working horses. I have been in two of these shops.. one only had four or five swords around, but the other had an entire room with at least a hundred for sale.

    There are also the shops catering to gamers, LARPing, etc. These sell the fantasy replica swords, which in some cases are just decorative, but many of which are extremely well made.

    Many bands at colleges and schools have swords used by the band leaders.

    There are modern sword fighting classes and tournaments, such as http://www.fightlongpoint.com/

    That doesn't even begin to include the fencing weapons (fencing sabres can be quite dangerous), the Japanese and Chinese weapons found as heirlooms, collections, or martial arts practice and performance weapons, or any of the various other cultures that have similar weapons that might be around.

    Plus, I would guess that some of the 'prepper's' have some melee weapons around... and those could conceivably include a sword or two.

    In this area, if I went looking for any sort of weapon that was not a tool, I would find more swords than anything else. I would also find more swords than machetes, and certainly far more than cricket bats or kukris.

    Edit: Short point, I'm not saying they should be more common than the improvised type weapons, but they certainly have their place, and are not extremely rare.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
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