Weapon damage values

Discussion in 'For PC Players Only' started by QMJS, Mar 25, 2014.

  1. QMJS

    QMJS Famous

    I see questions fairly often about which weapons do more damage. Here's the data (and a couple of opinions).

    Short note:
    All melee weapons (including unarmed attack) do the same damage (with three exceptions).
    They all do 80 points of damage except the Hero Ingorot Axe(85), Splitting Maul(90), and Hero Kanabo(90).
    So, for melee weapons, durability, class, and weight are important. Damage is generally going to be the same.
    Guns do 100 points of damage at .22 caliber, and increase up to 600 points for one .50 caliber sniper rifle.
    Generally, larger caliber weapons do more damage. They also have much higher recoil and make much more noise.
    Opinion part: To me, the important factors in order are- Can it be silenced? How much ammo does it hold (do I need to carry a stack of extra ammo)?, How much noise does it make even silenced? Then after those three questions, I consider ammunition type (for availability), recoil, gun type (if specialized), then ammo caliber (damage). Headshots are going to kill even with a .22 unless you are shooting a Juggernaut. If you aren't shooting in the head, the number of shots you will need to fire is going to bring nearby zombies even if silenced. Never use burst or auto fire unless you intend to attract the zombies in the area.
    Long note: Here's the list of extracted data from the xml files for the weapons.
    2x4 Damage=80
    2x4_Bracket Damage=80
    2x4_Nails Damage=80
    A12 Damage=100
    A12_custom Damage=100
    AssaultRifle_416 Damage=200
    AssaultRifle_416_CQB Damage=200
    AssaultRifle_ACR Damage=200
    AssaultRifle_AK47 Damage=300
    AssaultRifle_AK47_Custom Damage=300
    AssaultRifle_AKMS Damage=300
    AssaultRifle_AR15 Damage=200
    AssaultRifle_AR15V2 Damage=200
    AssaultRifle_AUG_A3 Damage=200
    AssaultRifle_FAL Damage=300
    AssaultRifle_G36 Damage=210
    AssaultRifle_L85A1 Damage=200
    AssaultRifle_M14 Damage=300
    AssaultRifle_M16A4 Damage=200
    AssaultRifle_M4A1 Damage=200
    AssaultRifle_M6 Damage=300
    AssaultRifle_Mk17Mod0 Damage=325
    AssaultRifle_RFB Damage=300
    AssaultRifle_ScarL Damage=200
    Axe Damage=80
    AxeDwarf Damage=80
    AxeIgorot Damage=80
    AxeIgorot_hero Damage=85
    Bat Damage=80
    Bat_Wood Damage=80
    Baton Damage=80
    Baton_Telescoping Damage=80
    BigAssWrench Damage=80
    Branch Damage=80
    Broadsword Damage=80
    BrushAxe Damage=80
    Bz_PO1_ST Damage=100
    Candlestick Damage=80
    Cane Damage=80
    Carrier 1911 Damage=200
    Cavalry_Saber Damage=80
    Chopper Damage=80
    CricketBat Damage=80
    Crowbar Damage=80
    Crutch Damage=80
    Edger Damage=80
    Escrima Damage=80
    Falchion Damage=80
    Fishwhacker Damage=80
    Fists Damage=80
    FryingPan Damage=80
    Gavel Damage=80
    GL_06_Riot Damage=400
    GL_M32 Damage=400
    GolfClub Damage=80
    Hammer Damage=80
    Hatchet Damage=80
    HedgeShears Damage=80
    HockeyStick Damage=80
    Hoe Damage=80
    Kama Damage=80
    Kanabo Damage=80
    Kanabo_Hero Damage=90
    Kukri Damage=80
    Kukri02 Damage=80
    LimbSaw Damage=80
    Mace Damage=80
    Machete Damage=80
    Machete01 Damage=80
    Machete03 Damage=80
    MachineBlade Damage=80
    MachineGun_M1918A2 Damage=350
    MachineGun_M249 Damage=200
    MachineGun_M27_IAR Damage=200
    MachineGun_M60E4 Damage=300
    MachineGun_RPK Damage=300
    MicStand Damage=80
    Nail_Puller Damage=80
    OarMetal Damage=80
    OarWood Damage=80
    PaperCutter Damage=80
    Pipe Damage=80
    Pipe_Threader Damage=80
    Pipe02 Damage=80
    Pipe03 Damage=80
    PipeBender Damage=80
    PirateSword Damage=80
    Pistol_1911A1_Officer Damage=200
    Pistol_84_wildcat Damage=100
    Pistol_Automag Damage=475
    Pistol_bz75 Damage=100
    Pistol_Condor Damage=500
    Pistol_D1911 Damage=200
    Pistol_fiftyseven Damage=150
    Pistol_g 17c Damage=100
    Pistol_g 20 Damage=200
    Pistol_g19 Damage=100
    Pistol_G21 Damage=200
    Pistol_G22 Damage=200
    Pistol_g26 Damage=100
    Pistol_g31 Damage=110
    Pistol_g32 Damage=110
    Pistol_g33 Damage=110
    Pistol_hi_power Damage=100
    Pistol_M11 Damage=100
    Pistol_M9 Damage=100
    Pistol_mandp_02 Damage=200
    Pistol_MiLe Damage=200
    Pistol_Mk3_Target Damage=100
    Pistol_OHWS40 Damage=200
    Pistol_P226 Damage=100
    Pistol_P226S Damage=115
    Pistol_P229 Damage=100
    Pistol_P229_40 Damage=200
    Pistol_PP22 Damage=100
    Pistol_TacMaster1911 Damage=200
    Pistol_XLock Damage=100
    Pistol_XLock_Tactical Damage=200
    Poker Damage=80
    PoliceBaton Damage=80
    Prybar Damage=80
    Rebar Damage=80
    Revolver_Anvil Damage=500
    Revolver_Anvil_elite Damage=550
    Revolver_Blackbird Damage=200
    Revolver_Diplomat Damage=200
    Revolver_M1917 Damage=200
    Revolver_MarkVI Damage=245
    Revolver_Model29 Damage=300
    Revolver_River_Snake Damage=300
    Revolver_Safari Damage=200
    Revolver_SnubDetective Damage=100
    Revolver_SP101 Damage=240
    Revolver_Toro_Bravo Damage=300
    Revolver_ViperP357 Damage=200
    Rifle_10_22 Damage=100
    Rifle_464Brushgun Damage=150
    Rifle_597_Varmint Damage=100
    Rifle_700Huntsman Damage=300
    Rifle_700Huntsman_V2 Damage=300
    Rifle_750_Forester Damage=300
    Rifle_983_Squirrel Damage=100
    Rifle_Bolt_Scout Damage=200
    Rifle_Dog_Leg Damage=200
    Rifle_Justice_45 Damage=200
    Rifle_L41A1 Damage=100
    Rifle_LenfieldNo4 Damage=300
    Rifle_M1_Garand Damage=300
    Rifle_M107_Elite Damage=600
    Rifle_M107CQ Damage=500
    Rifle_Mini_14 Damage=200
    Rifle_Mk15 Damage=500
    Rifle_Model_70 Damage=300
    Rifle_Monag_9031 Damage=300
    Rifle_Posse_King Damage=300
    Rifle_rc40 Damage=300
    Rifle_Sidekick Damage=300
    Rifle_SKS Damage=300
    Rifle_Socom2 Damage=300
    Rolling_Pin Damage=80
    Russian 12K Damage=100
    Shotgun_1300_Defender Damage=100
    Shotgun_1300_Hunter Damage=100
    Shotgun_1300_Hunter_SP Damage=100
    Shotgun_1897 Damage=100
    Shotgun_590SP Damage=100
    Shotgun_870x Damage=100
    Shotgun_A_Series_Mod_1SG Damage=100
    Shotgun_Coachgun Damage=150
    Shotgun_Doubleshort Damage=200
    Shotgun_Hooker Damage=100
    Shotgun_M1014 Damage=100
    Shotgun_Model_1100 Damage=100
    Shotgun_Model_1100_Malone Damage=100
    Shotgun_Model_1100T Damage=100
    Shotgun_Model870_T Damage=100
    Shotgun_TS15 Damage=100
    Shotgun_Warden Damage=100
    Shotgun_Warrior Damage=100
    Shotgun_WarriorTacticalPD Damage=100
    Shovel Damage=80
    Shovel02 Damage=80
    Sledgehammer Damage=80
    SMG_M_P90 Damage=100
    SMG_M_P90B Damage=100
    SMG_M_PS90 Damage=100
    SMG_M_PS90B Damage=100
    SMG_M10 Damage=200
    SMG_M1A1 Damage=200
    SMG_M3 Damage=200
    SMG_Mini_Uzi Damage=100
    SMG_MP5A3 Damage=100
    SMG_MP5K Damage=100
    SMG_MP7A1 Damage=100
    SMG_MPX Damage=150
    SMG_P9_Forge Damage=100
    SMG_P90 Damage=100
    SMG_PDS Damage=200
    SMG_Samurai_PDW Damage=100
    SMG_Super_Z Damage=200
    SMG_TMP9 Damage=100
    SMG_UMP40 Damage=200
    SMG_UMP40_E Damage=200
    SMG_Uzi Damage=100
    SplittingMaul Damage=90
    Sword Damage=80
    TableLeg Damage=80
    TacticalTomahawk Damage=80
    Tireiron Damage=80
    Tomahawk Damage=80
    Wakizashi Damage=80
    WakizashiShort Damage=80
    Wrench Damage=80
    Wrench02 Damage=80
     
  2. Bob Crees

    Bob Crees Famous

    Looking at the above list and at Level 6 BD at the moment, there are still many weapons that I have not found. Not using them very often (Only to unlock Hero) I did not realise that there were so many shotguns.
     
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  3. QMJS

    QMJS Famous

    Yeah, some are quite rare. In fact, I have never compared the search tables with the weapons list, so it is possible some of those are actually 'unfindable' in the base game.

    There is also a crossbow and arrows defined, but not used, and a few melee variants, such as a bowling pin. They are not fully developed though, and would need a good bit of work to make useable.
     
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  4. Perculator

    Perculator Starting Off

    I was always curious about this. Good to know the melee ones all do the same damage.

    For melee weapons, is the weight only important for your backpack fatigue carry limit, or does it affect your swing timing or tiredness as well? I haven't really paid much attention since there's no indication provided by the game that it matters.

    My impression has been that the bullet caliber seems to affect range as well. I haven't really tested this thoroughly, but I've always felt like I have to get much closer with a .22 for a head shot kill than I do with larger caliber ammo. Does anybody know if the base damage for firearms diminish over range?


    It drives me bonkers that every time I switch over to a character with an automatic weapon, it's on full auto. Wish I could switch it to default to semi-auto.:mad:
     
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  5. Bob Crees

    Bob Crees Famous

    I have found that I can hit targets further away with say a 7.62 bullet, as opposed to .22
     
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  6. QMJS

    QMJS Famous

    Weight is only important for the encumberance limit, as far as I have been able to find. Swing speed and stamina use are not mentioned in any of the weapon configuration files, but it is possible that it included somewhere else, possibly in the actual attack code.

    There is a mod listed on the master mod list page under weapons (https://forums.undeadlabs.com/threads/master-mod-thread.39878/) called 'semi-automatic firemode by default' that may be of use to you.

    And yes, you are both right... larger caliber weapons do have a greater effective range in general, but it is not exactly linear. The ranges are also nowhere near realistic values...

    Rifle_983_Squirrel is a .22 caliber rifle. It does 100 damage at up to 20 meters, thn looses 10 damage per meter after that, reaching 0 at 30 meters.
    Rifle_M1_Garand is a 7.62mm rifle. It does 300 damage at up to 32 meters, then looses 15 damage per meter after that, reaching 0 at 52 meters.

    So, you could generalize that the larger caliber weapons that do more damage also have greater range, but it is somewhat variable from gun to gun.

    Shotguns have really small ranges... Shotgun_Doubleshort is the lamest, doing 200 damage at 5 meters, dropping 15 per meter after that, and reaching 0 at about 18 meters. Useful indoors I suppose, but just about useless outside.
     
  7. BiggusD

    BiggusD Got Your Back

    With shotguns, it is a matter of waiting long enough ;)
     
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  8. Perculator

    Perculator Starting Off

    That all makes sense. I've stopped using .22 chambered firearms due to what I thought was a range issue for me. While suppressed, I've found that other firearms don't really give me problems regardless of the caliber.

    Maybe one of these days I'll take a few different weighted melee weapons and swing them around and see if I notice any speed difference. I'm dubious there is at this point, but I've never really seriously paid attention to it before. I actually had a hunch in the past that heavier weight meant more damage (F=MA and all that physics jazz), but that appears to not be the case. I'll need to re-prioritize my weapon selection to lower weight items it seems.

    Thanks for the link to the mod, BTW. I've avoided mods up to this point as I just wanted to experience all there was to experience plain vanilla before I started jacking around with stuff. I'm on BD level 6 now, and I'll start toying with mods once I hit 11 (or lose, I suppose). But that one may push me over the edge to just snag it now.
     
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  9. Dreadalus

    Dreadalus Got Your Back

    Thanks very much for posting that, QMJS. I've long suspected that higher-weight weapons hit harder, or had a higher knock-down chance, or something. You've saved me hours of testing and tallying :)
     
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  10. BiggusD

    BiggusD Got Your Back

    Well, there is a difference between Damage and Critical Chance (kill or knockdown). Where would that info be found?
     
  11. QMJS

    QMJS Famous

    This is sort of an answer to your question, but more of a theory... all this is just an assumption at this point. It may or may not be entirely correct.
    You can see some of the combat logic in some of the script files like basicactor.lua, singleplayer.lua, and basicai.lua.
    These appear to be modified default files for the CryEngine.
    Simliarly, Default.lua and the zombie personality files contain the OnReceivingDamage, OnDamage, and OnEnemyDamage function call definitions, but not how they are implemented (not the functions themselves). These are handled by the statemachine files (multiple in different directories).
    I think that the damage listed for a weapon is essentially a damage potential. Higher damage equates to a higher chance of effects, as well as a numerical Health value. A specific hit is translated to a force vector based on the damage simliar to this:

    Damage impulses
    self.LastHit.impulse.x = self.LastHit.impulse.x * hit.damage;
    self.LastHit.impulse.y = self.LastHit.impulse.y * hit.damage;
    self.LastHit.impulse.z = self.LastHit.impulse.z * hit.damage;

    function BasicEntity:OnDamage( hit )
    if( hit.ipart and hit.ipart>=0 ) then
    self:AddImpulse( hit.ipart, hit.pos, hit.dir, hit.impact_force_mul );
    end
    end

    The impulse seems to be modified due to damage type (EdgedLight, BluntLight, BluntHeavy, etc.), and character skills (powerhouse extra killing blow chance, revolver extra stopping power, etc.), as well as whether or not they are vulnerable or if it is a head hit. The impulse then can have several effects.
    RandomKill
    DefiniteKill
    Zombie, DamageHeavy
    Zombie, DamageStandard
    Zombie, DamageLight
    Stun

    Based on the effect, a specific reaction is generated. They are either knocked back, knocked down, staggered, dismembered, etc. and may enter a vulnerable state. The direction they are knocked down depends on the vector components of the impulse. When in a vulnerable state, they can't attack, and player's attacks have a stronger effect. Damage is recorded from these hits, but does not directly affect the reaction. Their available actions are also affected, so a zombie that has been hit recently has weaker attack options than one that has not been engaged.
    If they do not enter a vulnerable state, then they can be killed by cumulative damage, although it may actually be a number of hits instead of damage specific (HitsLanded is one of the parameters handled by the statemachines) so that if multiple attacks have not resulted in a calculated kill reaction, they die from damage added up from the actual weapon damage values until it exceed their Health value.
    Special instant kill effects like decapitate and stealth kills are also handled by the statemachines, as well as vehicle collision effects and explosions.

    So the flow may be something like this:
    1. Upon hit, check if it is a skill-based instant kill (decapitate) or situational instant kill (stealth)?
    2. Calculate impulses, extra magnitude if head hit, and extra magnitude if vulnerable.
    3. Check for immediate kill (small chance for any attack, added bonuses based on skills, seperate function for head bullet hits).
    4. Determine impulse effect (Light, standard, or heavy damage hit, and if it is high enough knock to side, knock down, stun, or dismember, and then set as vulnerable)
    5. If not killed by impulse effect, subtract damage from health.

    On an unrelated note, barbed wire does have some effect on zombies.. what it is is not clear, and it may only be to use the different animation, but they are evaluated as two different states:
    ClimbOnto, ClimbOver, Window, BarbedWire
    ClimbOnto, ClimbOver, Window
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014
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  12. BiggusD

    BiggusD Got Your Back

    That's interesting. The crux of it all is; do different melee weapons have different modifiers to insta-kill, insta-knock down or stun? I mean, apart from Heavy/Edged/Blunt? It seems not, but at the same time I know I can mow down a horde one strike each with a Wakisashi/katana. I have not had the same luck with other edged weapons. Of course, as mentioned earlier, I don't give those blades to anyone...

    Another issue is melee weapon reach. I have a distinct feeling that the small Wrench make me miss more heads than the large Mace, for instance.
     
  13. QMJS

    QMJS Famous

    Range may be an effect of the geometry files (cgf), or simply the size of the weapon mesh. I have always assumed they were just for display, but it could have an effect on attack range due to collision, so that a bigger weapon mesh would hit at a longer range.

    I don't see any special stats that make a particular weapon better at instant kills or knockdowns. The statemachine may take the encumberance value into consideration, but nothing else in the configurations stands out.

    Possibly.. better/favorite characters get the favorite weapons, and have better skills to use them?
     
  14. BiggusD

    BiggusD Got Your Back

    Yes of course, this is why it is so hard to KNOW for certain!
     
  15. Perculator

    Perculator Starting Off

    And all of this goes back to my frustration at not having some sort of documentation from the developers as to what each of the characteristics of the weapons do. It wouldn't need to be details like amount of damage and all of that, but just simple descriptions of what the characteristics mean and how that affects game play. Something like: "Heavier weapons have a slightly higher chance at critical damage but cause more fatigue and a slower swing." Even something like that would give us some valuable information that we could then put to use in our decision making in-game.

    Without this kind of information, we end up digging into their files and making guesses and assumptions about how the game works, or finding someone else's guesses on the internet, and any of those guesses or inferences could be completely off base and leading us to bad game play decisions.

    To some extent, it's quite frustrating.
     
    BloodnAshes likes this.
  16. Sablicious

    Sablicious Starting Off

    I'd actually like to know how to make the shotguns more or less guarantee knock-downs. I'd also like this to work against armoured zombies; albeit sans actual damage to them (the game spawns the armoured deadites almost instantly when you start shooting). The shotguns are near useless as they still take head shots to kill, have short range, small magazines, slow-ish reloads and, obviously, draw more zombies. As such, I think if you use a shotgun, it should have some advantage over other weapons for the space it takes up in your backpack.
     
  17. BiggusD

    BiggusD Got Your Back

    They do. You can kill a horde with two shots if you wait long enough.
     
  18. Sablicious

    Sablicious Starting Off

    ^ Not unless it's a head shot or at point blank (i.e., melée) range. Shotties have more range and impact than that. Also, as mentioned, the armoured Zeds, who shamble as if they're about to keel over, don't even budge from shotgun blasts; which is clearly nonsensical.
     
  19. Perculator

    Perculator Starting Off

    I've found it depends *which* shotgun you're talking about. Due to the noise and lack of any suppressor, I've avoided using shotguns for a majority of the game and tend to just dump them at enclaves for influence. But to get the shotgun kill goal for the hero in BD, I kept a couple around.

    I tried working with one of the larger magazines (8 rounds I believe), and had a hell of a time getting kills, even at point blank. I figured having more shots between reload would be useful. I'd end up using 3 or 4 shots at one zombie just to take it out. I could make a whole group fall down, but it seemed really hard to get the kill.

    Then I switched to one with a 3 round capacity, and that thing plowed through zombies no problem. I racked up the kills much faster with that one.

    So I found the 3 round capacity shotgun to be far more useful and effective at taking zombies down. But at the end of the day, I never use shotguns now...unless I really feel like fighting off more and more zombies, which is counter productive to the goals in BD in general.
     
  20. BiggusD

    BiggusD Got Your Back

    I get both. Some fall down, others have their heads vaporized. You need to pull the trigger when they are in their "hug leap", though. Max one meter from the edge of the barrel, maybe less. Instead of waiting for them to get up again, or moving closer to kill them with another shot, I go melee finishing when they are down. That way, two-three shots take down a horde, but not all of them are killed by the shots. At higher levels there are always at least one Army Z joining in when you do this so you cannot rely on the shotgun alone. After this, it is time to go away... quickly :p

    The mods I am using allows suppressors on nearly everything, including revolvers and shotguns. There is still a lot of noise, but my question is this: is it possible to suppress shotguns? Wouldn't that diminsh spread? Suppressors work by reducing the speed of the projectile so that it don't break the sound barrier, don't they?

    The silencing is a little over the top in this game anyway. 7.62 calibre automatic fire would be audible in almost the entire valley (isn't it at most 3km?), and even suppressed .22 fire is certainly audible in at least a hundred meter radius. It is silly shooting a herd of audiovisual predators from ten meters away with a rifle and none of them hear it, but if you sneak up on one and stealth kill it you got the whole larger area on you immediately.
     
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